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What Is The Most Height Gain One Can Achieve Through Exercises And Stretching After Puberty And Growth Plate Closure?

So I am going to take some time today to answer this question so that it will go in the Frequently Asked Questions section.

What I am finding is that even though I have created a FAQs Section to the website, I still get around half a dozen emails everyday asking me the same questions.

The two most common variations of questions are (and I have already wrote about it 3 times already).

  • Hi. I am 16-30 years old (in some age in that range). I am this tall. Can I still grow taller?
  • I want to be 4-7 inches Taller. I am 5′ 1″-5’5″ male and I want to be 5′ 10″-6′ 2″. What supplements/ pills can I take to grow taller?

In each of these questions, you realize that both of them are loaded questions.

In the first question, they just are hoping that I will say yes to this question. The truth is that the chances are low and that they probably won’t gain even half a centimeter of height increase if they don’t start taking some form of action immediately, in the form of exercising and stretching.

In the second question, they are hoping that I will tell them some secret, unknown chemical compound supplement which no one has heard before yet which will be essentially a “Magic Pill” which I have already talked about. The truth is that the real answer to this question is that there is no single pill that will no everything.

A common variation to the supplement/pill question is to ask is there a type of pill that the person can take which will have all of the essential, suggested active ingredients. And my answer is a quick no. Again what the question is looking for is a “Magic Pill“, that has all of the height increase benefits, at least one which really does work. Throughout the internet space there are few website which do claim that they have all of the essential ingredients needed to stimulate increased height growth rate in them, but all of them are fake, at least all of the supplements I have looked at. Not one of them have been able to give a theory on why the pills they are selling could possibly work and resolve the issues dealing with the chondrogenesis process and how to get over the hard, strong cortical bone extracellular matrix.

I am going to be completely honest with the questioner right now. Everything I know I have already revealed to the reader at some point in the website. What you know from reading the website is what I know, and that is the limit and extend of my knowledge.

So if the answers to the two most common asked questions to the email are…

Answer to question #1: “Probably not, but you can try by  reading the Exercise Guide Section and buy the supplements in the Supplement Guide Section

Answer to question #2: “There is no pills that will guarantee height increase but you can try out the supplements I suggested in the Supplement Guide Section.”

Since these two most commonly asked question are finally completely and fully answered, I will answer what I think is a third and maybe the real question many questioners are really asking to me, but don’t realize is their real intention…

“What Is The Most Height Gain One Can Achieve Through Exercises And Stretching After Puberty And Growth Plate Closure?”

This question is assuming that the supplements i suggested the questioner and reader try to buy and take is either not used or is being used and having no noticeable effects. The answer is that for most people, the maximum height increase they can get, both temporary and permanent would be around the 1.5″ or 4 cm range. That is what in my professional research opinion is possible for height increase for 99.99% of all people in a large group. 4 cm or 1.5 inches is both lage enough to be noticeable and small enough to not be that dramatic. For most people, they will never go beyond 2 cm of potential height increase due to their posture and vertebrate curvature already inherent in their skeletal structure.

However,we must not remember that extremely tall people can have an even greater amount of height increase, by upwards of 5 cms. A person like Paul Gasol who has been measured at a little over 7 feet tall can have his height show a variation as large as 1.50-2 inches of height difference between the time of him first getting out of bed and right before he goes to bed to decompress his vertebrate. We see from Tyson Chandler’s predraft measurements that he was actually 6′ 11.50″ in height without shoes, 7′ 0.5″ with shoes on, a 7′ 3″ length in wingspan, and a 9′ 2″ reach.  (source) However, we know that he is listed as 7′ 1″ on most of the basketball and NBA website directories. This could also be right which would suggest that a human male that is over 5 standard deviations away from the average height can have a high variation in his height, and at some points of the day really be 7′ 1″ and at other times 1.5″ less. For these super tall humans, the amount of height increase they can get through exercises and stretching can be up to 5 cm in height increase, but however by the time there are already around 7 feet tall, it would really make little sense for them to desire to be any taller for any good practical reasons.

So if you are going to go through with some form of exercise routine or stretching program, the most that almost everyone should expect is about 1.5 inches of height increase.

As a sort of example, let me show my own process. As for myself, I focused on swimming at least 2 hours a day, sleeping without a pillow, doing decompressive stretching while lying after waking up which involved lunges. I also bought an inversion table and used that with twisting of the torso for maybe 10 minutes everyday until my head got dizzy from the blood flow down to my head. I also used yoga posed that focused on bending and stretching my back. I was very consistent in when I would measure my height and even shaved my head to make sure my hair would not cause any height measurement eror. This went on for about 4 months. In the end I gained 0.25 of an inch.

Sometimes Estrogen Is A Good Thing And Letrozole And Aromatase Inhibitors Are A Bad Thing

While I was going through compiling The Library I came across a study which made me stop for a good hour to understand what it is really implying and I finally realized why the results from it was so contrarian to everything I’ve learned about so far.

From PubMed study entitled “Locally produced estrogen promotes fetal rat metatarsal bone growth; an effect mediated through increased chondrocyte proliferation and decreased apoptosis.“…

J Endocrinol. 2006 Feb;188(2):193-203.

Locally produced estrogen promotes fetal rat metatarsal bone growth; an effect mediated through increased chondrocyte proliferation and decreased apoptosis.

Chagin AS, Chrysis D, Takigawa M, Ritzen EM, Sävendahl L.

Source

Pediatric Endocrinology Unit, Department of Woman and Child Health, Karolinska Institute, Karolinska University Hospital, SE-171 76 Stockholm, Sweden. andrei.chagin@ki.se

Abstract

The importance of estrogens for the regulation of longitudinal bone growth is unequivocal. However, any local effect of estrogens in growth plate cartilage has been debated. Recently, several enzymes essential for estrogen synthesis were shown to be expressed in rat growth plate chondrocytes. Local production of 17beta-estradiol (E2) has also been demonstrated in rat costal chondrocytes. We aimed to determine the functional role of locally produced estrogen in growth plate cartilage. The human chondrocyte-like cell line HCS-2/8 was used to study estrogen effects on cell proliferation (3H-labeled thymidine uptake) and apoptosis (cell death detection ELISA kit). Chondrocyte production of E2 was measured by RIA and organ cultures of fetal rat metatarsal bones were used to study the effects of estrogen on longitudinal growth rate. We found that significant amounts of E2 were produced by HCS-2/8 chondrocytes (64.1 +/- 5.3 fmol/3 days/10(6) cells). The aromatase inhibitor letrozole (1 microM) and the pure estrogen receptor antagonist ICI 182,780 (10 microM) inhibited proliferation of HCS-2/8 chondrocytes by 20% (P < 0.01) and almost 50% (P < 0.001), respectively. Treatment with ICI 182,780 (10 microM) increased apoptosis by 228% (P < 0.05). Co-treatment with either caspase-3 or pan-caspase inhibitors completely blocked ICI 182,780-induced apoptosis (P < 0.001 vs ICI 182,780 only). Moreover, both ICI 182,780 (10 microM) and letrozole (1 microM) decreased longitudinal growth of fetal rat metatarsal bones after 7 days of culture (P < 0.01). In conclusion, our data clearly show that chondrocytes endogenously produce E2 and that locally produced estrogen stimulates chondrocyte proliferation and protects from spontaneous apoptosis. In addition, longitudinal growth is promoted by estrogens locally produced within the epiphyseal growth plate.

PMID: 16461546 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]   Free full text

Analysis: What we have been learning about and sort of concluded from the months of research was that overall, estrogen was a bad thing and that to delay the final growth plate closure we have to take aromatase inhibitors to prevent estrogen from completely using up the last bit of chondrocytes left. This study actually seems to have the reverse conclusion, which is that estrogen is good for chondrocyte proliferation and thus longitudinal growth and that Letrozole and other estrogen receptor antagonists like ICI were not a good thing since they lead to more spontaneous chondrocyte apoptosis in the growth plate of young lab rats. However we are not talking about femurs and tibias, but digits, feet metatarsals. The growth plates themselves seem to create estrogen, specifically beta-estradiol (E2). The researchers conclude with “In conclusion, our data clearly show that chondrocytes endogenously produce E2 and that locally produced estrogen stimulates chondrocyte proliferation and protects from spontaneous apoptosis. In addition, longitudinal growth is promoted by estrogens locally produced within the epiphyseal growth plate.” If I was to try to guess at why this study has results that go directly in conflict with our main axiom on how growth works, I’d say this phenomena is similar to what you see when the onset of puberty starts. The increase in estrogen release rate happens in two stages in bone development, when the puberty stage first get started, and when the puberty is about to end. Since we are talking about rats that are very young still with functional growth plates, we could say that the experiment is similar to when they are going through the initial puberty stage. Remember that girls go through puberty earlier than boys so during the 4-6 grade years range, some girls actually become taller than boys. This is from the excess estrogen they got in the earlier years compared to boys  so they start puberty earlier. However we know from other studies that it seems that first (and 2nd) estrogen increased rate of release actually is what depletes the number of available chondrocytes in the resting zone that is ultimately able to proliferate and hypertrophy. This means that the height increase you get in the that stage is what will hurt you down the line when your resting zone runs out of proliferating material and ultimately will close faster. So, sometimes estrogen is a good thing and aromatase inhibitors are a bad thing in leading to longitudinal growth. However I caution that the initial good results you see could be the cause for bad results later on. I think this study never took the studies further to see if the experimental to the control groups still had the same ultimate metatarsal lengthening ratio or did the metatarsal length ratios of control to experimental reverse due to the excess estrogen in the beginning.

Reviewing A Height Increase Success Story By SkinTightFlash From Youtube, A Lance Ward Supporter

Yesterday I got an email from a reader of the website who wanted me to check out the videos on YouTube of a guy names SkinTightFlash who was showing his face and talking about his height increase success story. From only looking at 4 of the 7 videos he has uploaded to date, I would guess that he is a real honest person who is not trying to scam or con people out of money and pushing them to buy a product that doesn’t work. It seems that Lance Ward has featured him and his videos on the GTG (Grow Taller Guru) youtube channel to show that his programs do work in helping people grow taller. That is fair enough. So far he has become rather popular and even though he has 7 videos uploaded as of this current date, he has over 2000 video views, as he states. In each video, you can see that he gets dozens of comments asking for his routine and stretching patterns of who give his a congratulatory note. He seems like a really nice and likeable guy.

You can get to his YouTube video Channel by clicking the his profile at TightSkinFLash.

Click Here–>TightSkinFlash <– Click Here.

I will not be uploading, embedding, or posting any of his videos on this post since there is too many and the information I have below I had to watch all the videos and combine all the information he has given are all scattered through out the videos. There is no central video he has which would give all of the information below.

So far these are the facts we know about him.

Obviously he is an African American male

Age: over 25 years old, as he reports

Old claimed height: 5′ 7.25″ He says that from the age of 18 and high school, he remembers that he was always at 5′ 7″ and he is not sure where the quarter of inch came from after that. From his early 20s, he was always at 5′ 7″, not any taller.

Height found on his Driver’s License: 5 ‘7″ based in Texas. Note: The issue I have with that drivers license shot was that he did not show his face. That makes me slightly suspicious. There is really nothing to cover or hide from revealing his face on the drivers license. At least that would be a way to 

Claimed new height #1: 5′ 8.125″ , this is for his morning height, after he gets out of bed

Claimed new height #2 after more stretching: 5′ 8.25″ (for sometime later after September, maybe November-Decembet time range.)

Measured height late at night at the gym: 170.9 cm which is 67.2835 inches or 5′ 7.25″

Dad’s Height: 6′ 2″

Real Goal: 6′ 4″

Would settle for: 6′ 1.5″- 6′ 2″

Won’t really start to give advice or talk about his methods, routines, or ideas until he reaches: 5′ 11″

Won’t be sure if his height increase is real until he reaches: 5′ 9″

Others things to consider: The possibility of his measuring error is reduced because of his shaved head. Hair plays a large part in height measuring error. In one videos he explicitly shows a shot of his head before and after getting it shaved since he realizes that he had to be more accurate in his measurements and wanted to make sure the height increase he was measuring was real. Good for him. That shows he is really dedicated.

Measuring Technique: From one video he states that all though he has gotten people and commenters who suggest him getting a stadiometer, he has not gone that path since those things cost hundreds of dollars. His method is to measure and mark horizontal lines on a wall and use a book that pushes down until it reaches his head to measure himself. I would say that is still reasonable although it would lead to more measurement error than I would have desired.

Schedule of Measurement: He measures himself every morning. He did the very first measurement “late, late, late at night on the 13th of September…or maybe even the 14th of September since it might have crossed midnight…“(his quote) He was also dehydrated that date. Every other measurement after that first measurement was done in the morning. That is what he has chosen to measure himself.

This guy is on a 90 days height increase challenge. His routine he states is that he stretches 2 hours a day, which I found really impressive. He says in one of his videos that he tries to stretch 15 minutes in the morning, 15 minutes in the evening, and have the other 2 hours somewhere in the middle.

He does try some hanging on a bar chin-up style like Michael Jordan but he says in one of his replied comments that he can’t do it for more than 10 seconds.

So far, I have gone to his YouTube channel and written a message asking him if he would like to join in a discussion with me for one of the podcast episodes so we can record his story and hear everything. Apparently he does try to take the HGH cocktail we found from the Grow Taller 4 Idiots book, which is a mixture of Fava beans, raw cabbage, and tomatoes. He stated he goes with organic ingredients which is fine by me. Whatever makes him feel better. From the video it seems he buys his organic vegetables from Whole Foods and mixes the secret ingredient, organic natural milk with his vegetable “HGH Cocktail”.

When he talks about the secret ingredient, what I am guessing he is referring to is “organic natural milk“. The tallest groups of people in the world are either tribes in africa, the Dutch, or the Croatians/Serbians. Some of them do drink a lot of milk, while the  African tribes drink a lot of goat milk. The thing is that the pure cow milk is actually illegal to be sold in some states due to the fact most people feel the pure stuff may contain harmful compounds inside. Additional compounds are added which is believed to eliminate potential biological parasites or bacterial which could be harmful. In replacement, most places choose to add a chemical additive, which means you replace a potentially dangerous compounds from a biological source to a potentially dangerous compounds from a chemical source. He claims that SIMPLE SUGARS are bad if you want to be skinny or tall. I agree with him about the skinny part since there has been studies which link carbohydrates with increased fat retention, and carbohydrates are just complex sugars. However, I can’t give an opinon about his claim on the link between simple sugars and height since I have seen nothing to back up his claim about that. From the section of video it is shot at, note that he uses the term “a gallon and a half a day” when he types it up. That means the secret stuff is a liquid form measured in volumetric units. Plus, you can see him driving through an area which looks to be rural, so he might be actually at a farm. Of course I kept pausing his video so the last section was actually written before he revealed that the secret compound was organic natural milk in the next 3 seconds of the video.

In another video, you can hear a female voice interject which shows that he has not been doing these program on his own. That woman seems to be doing some of the camera holding on some of the videos. She is revealed to be his wife. He says that she supports his decision and desire to go through with the grow taller program 100% which is very commendable. In the same video, he reveals that his has two beliefs on why his situation is a littler harder than other people’s being slightly older that other people who are trying to grow taller and being overweight. He says that because of him being overweight, he would have to try harder than most others to get the results he wants.

In another video, he shares the story of how his cousin who used to tease him for him being shorter than him was recently compared in height to him to find out he was taller than her, both with shoes off. That would be a good ego boost to anyone, to get back at people.

My Personal Analysis: In many of my previous posts I had talked about this idea I called “Hidden Height” and I will say it again. Most people in society actually are not at their full height potential because they actually have “Hidden Height” which is never realized. What I am claiming to this guy is that he is just finally decideding to change his lifestyle incorporating better diet habits and exercises and stretching to realize that hidden height. I stated in a previous post entitled “What Percentage Of The General Population Can Increase Their Height?” which was written in the beginning of September about the idea of Hidden Height but I have also talked about it occasionally. In general, I have stated that people who have being overweight living unhealthy lifestyles before they start a height increase program are far more likely to see results that the people who are already doing fitness. This is because the person who is not doing fitness has not tried to realize that hidden height.

Since they don’t exercise a lot or try to stand completely straight, their vertebrate through gravity will actually start to curve more and their posture gets worst as a result. Being overwieght and/or obsese is the easiest way for people to have hidden height. The excess weight actually prevents their vertebrate from decompressing completely and letting them to stand completely straight. Further bad posture lead to further vertebrate curvature. My old girlfriend’s father had the the cervical vertebrate region so curved forward that the back of his head would never touch the bed if he lied on his back on the bed and removed the pillow. From older pictures you can see that he in his 20-30s always stood straight and had good posture but the years cause him to loss the good posture excess eating habits, long working hours, excess drinking, and habitual bad posture. If he tried a height increase routine he would have gained at least 1 inch back permanently.

That hidden height is from the fact that there are stretching a person with closed growth plates can do which can help them lead to 2-3 cms, and maybe even sometimes 4 cms of extra height which is mostly permanent. This guy states himself that he is overweight. This makes him the perfect candidate to see dramatic results. If he was a Olympic level gymnastic, no matter how much stretching he did, he would NOT increase even 0.25″ of extra height .It really does suck that the for the people who live healthy lives, the exercise and stretching routines won’t give them much results but can only be seen by people who have not been doing it.

There is a chance for a certain percentage of the population people to get some extra height in adulthood and that is seen in other posts whether you use rolfing, chiropractor, Alexander Method, PIlates, or Yoga. However, again it is really them gaining the hidden height potential they always had in their curved posture and vertebrate.

Conclusion: His 1 inch height increase is real and probably will be permanent. However my claim is that the increase is from hidden height which was already there which he is only now is being fully realized. There will come a point where he will be limited to any more height increase due to the contraints of bone i.e. the intervertebral disks can no longer decompress any more, and I would guess he won’t ever get past the 5′ 9″ limit. The clearest examples was the Monaug case from GiantScientific forums. He gained around 2 inches from a massive real dedicated stretching program  but eventually lost some of that and eventually ended up with about 1 inch of permanent growth. If he does however get beyond, 5′ 9″ to even 5′ 9.5″ then we really have something to look into and checking up on.

Review: Japanese Face Slimming Roller Massager May Actually Cause The Opposite Intended Effects Due To Bone Remodeling

This is not a cosmetics or cosmetics review website. This is a website that investigates, analyzes, and searches for the solution of height increase. However I felt that I probably would be able to give my own personal review on the theory of this product due to previous research in bone remodeling.

Sometimes I see products being sold at the local convenience store I shop at and I get a slight swinge of anger from seeing something which I know would never work but still sells to people due to their insecurities like vanity or fear. This happened to me yesterday.

i39gr9While I was walking through the local supermarket trying to get toiletries I ended up in the aile where female cosmetic products were being sold. Along that long and large section, I saw again what I would only call the “Japanese Face Slimming Roller Massager”. Refer to picture to the right if you are not familiar or know what I am talking about.

I remember back when I was living in the states going to places like the Japanese based store Diaso or the locally Seattle based asian supermarket chain Uwajimaya and seeing this thing which was a Japanese invention. Now that I am living in East Asia I am seeing this product again.

Although I have never bought the roller and used it myself, I wanted to give a thought to the effect of the Japanese face slimming roller massager. I actually think that the extended use of this massager may actually cause the opposite intended effects of face slimming due to how bones remodel.

Note: Picture is taken from EBeautyBlog.com

951745524_fb6ea0e5b0We see from other pictures that the natural state of the roller is not in a V-shape but in a rather tight tweezer shape. If I was to put this thing on my face, would the elasticity be weak enough to only roll my skin or will the elasticity be stronger and actually cause the roller ends to be touching my bone ie. jawline?

If it is just touching my outer layer of epidermis, my skin, then what it does as it rolls along the face is to move around the adipose tissue making it slightly more uniform in distribution thus causing the face to be slightly smoother. Think of the big Zambonis (Ice resurfacer) which you find at ice skating rinks.

In terms of the application for massager, it seems to work well. In quite a few forums like HERE we find out that it is a nice product if you are looking to get a way to massage your cheeks and face. People like its stress lowering, comforting, therapeutic effects. The effects made by the few people who review show it helps in a psychological way which is probably a placebo. They say it relieves tension and maybe also reduces pain.

However, due to how it is touching and at what frequency on the face, there is a chance that repeated application of the hard surface can cause the jawline bones, the side mandibular area to actually thicken, due to the Wolff’s Law. Periosteal and appositional growth of the bone may lead to the bones to grow wider and thus the face wider too. Of course this is assuming the face slimmer is even touching the bone. If it is, it would cause it from continued use, but the effects would be so small it would be mostly unnoticeable, maybe only 1-2 mm of mandibular bone thickening.

In addition, if we remember our basic knowledge on massage theories, one of the biggest things that happens to human skin when you apply a loading motion like massages and acupressure is that it would lead to the blood vessels in that area to dilate leading to better and increased circulation and blood flow. This means the area would actually become slightly engorged. Think about how a person who gets hit by a blunt object will find that area later to be swollen. This would also lead to the opposite intended effect, making the face wider.

If the product does have any face slimming effects, its application on the skin must be very soft and it would cause the adipose tissue unders the skin to move away from the area where it is being rolled and applied at to another area. However it seems this thing is cheap at around $3-5 in most stores so it is worth a try just to see how it feels.

The Solution To Height Increase After Growth Plate Closure Will Not Be Solved Today, So Why Do You Still Read This Website?

Something I realized today after I was getting really frustrated writing up a post which I think will be a breakthrough post was to wonder what exactly you as the regular reader and visitor is getting in terms of value from this website.

I know that I won’t be finding the solution to all of our problem, how to grow taller after our growth plates have closed, any time soon. If the reason you are coming to this website is to hope that one day soon I will figure out through my research an answer to our problem, I think you will have to wait a long time.

Since this type of research will take a long, long time so why do you, the regular visitor still come to the website?

I hope I am not being patronizing but I try to be realistic on my endeavor. It is hard. This thing is super difficult, harder than trying to get through a engineering undergraduate course load, a graduate theoretical physics class, or a medical school 4 year program. At least those things people in the past have been able to get through and succeed in.

Whether I succeed or not, I don’t get a prize or medal even if I succeed and find something maybe years later from now.

snails-pace-lisasolonynkoThe research is long, intense, and requires that I delve into subjects which I previously tried to avoid with all effort. During my undergraduate engineering courses, I preferred physics and engineering problems, not biology and genetics studies. I am learning VERY SLOWLY each day and the fact that I have to use a Medical Dictionary every time I come across a word which I don’t know about (ie. immunohistochemistry, glucocorticoids, glycosaminoglycan) which is about once every 2 minutes means that it takes me about 3 days to pick up and fully understand what even one main idea means. I am moving slower than even a turtle, but a snail’s pace. Refer to slomo to the right.

I am not a genius, and I am not diligent in my work ethic. I lack many qualities which would allow me to succeed in most endeavors in life.

What I do have is that I am persistent and willing to give my effort in trying something which most people think is a waste of my time. However I am finding that as each month goes by, I get a little better at reading those PubMed articles, get slightly better at understanding the genetic implications of what the Authors write about, and can start to make some headway in coming up with some original thoughts of my own.

So far, most of what I have written about is from the work and effort of other people before me. All I try to do is relate and translate the work of people many standards of deviation smarter than me to a language and way that would let me and the readers understand better.

All that I hope for is that by the end of this year, 20013, I will be knowledgeable enough to be able to make some coherent, reasonably accurate theories and ideas on how we can start to try to get the human height to increase.

HELP WANTED: The Website Needs Chinese And Korean Translators And Detectives To Translate And Find Scientific PubMed Study Articles

imgresWhat I am noticing a lot recently is that some of the more interesting article posts are written in languages which I can not read (yet). So I am throwing a post out there looking for a people who can read, and translate Chinese and Korean scientific studies, articles, and papers.

Sometimes I come across papers in German, or Finnish, or Japanese but some of the more recent ones which I find the most interesting are both hard to find a complete full document file and text on as well as being in a language which I can’t read.

So there is two job roles that I hope people can take on to help make a contribution to the cause.

  • I would like people to first go to  The Library section on where they can get just The Abstract, but still need the full document. The articles that are in another language are always in brackets, which is a nice thing that the PubMed database has already done, to indicate to native English readers that the paper is in another language.
  • Then hope you can translate (you can use Google translate, Yahoo Babelfish, etc.) the documents completely, at least the introduction, discussion, and conclusion parts. The experimental, and method sections can be left untranslated, until we are sure that the experiment showed success in what we are hoping for.

I am willing to pay for these documents if there is a database somewhere which does hold them and require payment. However I prefer not to expend the effort, energy, and time to find these key papers/ documents. That hopefully would be the job of a person who would like like to make a contribution to the website.

At this point I can’t pay anything to the person who does this. The only thing I can do at this point is give them credit and put their name on any posts and papers we the researchers would write about.