Monthly Archives: July 2016

Hexarelin and CJC-1295 (No Dac) Are Better Than Ibutamoren For Growing Taller

In the most recent post I wrote about Ibutamoren, someone did post and say that I don’t seem to know much about growth plates or my chemical compounds.

This person, who calls himself Steve, stated that instead of taking Ibutamoren Mesylate, which is also known as MK-677, it would be better to take CJC No Dac 1295 and Hexarelin. He states that there are multiple studies that have been published that show that the chemicals definitely work on children who are still growing to get taller.

Hexarelin CJC-1295

There is one anecdotal story he mentions where a guy stated on a Reddit thread that he grew taller by a full 1.5 Inches in just 4 weeks from taking a certain peptide combination (which I am going to assume he is referring to CJC No Dac 1295 and Hexarelin) from 6’ 3” to 6’ 4.5”.

Other information he states are the following….

Long Bone Growth Plates – 18-22 years old
Vertebral Growth Plates – 21-25 years old
Clavicle – 21-25 years old.

What he has said from a quick glance is completely accurate.

I have known since 2013 that the vertebral cartilage don’t ossify until after the long bones do. The clavicle is indeed that last bone to fully ossify. The pediatricians and GPs (Family doctors who probably specialized in Internal Medicine) would tell the average teenager that he would stop growing around the age of 16-19, but that is not actually true. I had sort of realized just a few days ago from noticing the difference in height from incoming university freshman males, who are usually 17-18, and young male adults who are in the work force, usually around 23-25, that there is a definite difference in height averages between the two groups. That means that the conservative age that the regular doctor will tell their teenage patient is off by probably a few years years. Usually guys don’t stop growing until they are 21-23. The old number of 17-20 are a little off.

My Thoughts

On many of the online forums and discussion boards on the internet that is related to bodybuilding, and weight lifting, you can see that the posters always refer to studies and cite the PubMed database almost every time.

There is no doubt that there have probably been thousands of guys who have come before me and after me, who also are avid readers and searchers on PubMed. I seem to remember from a podcast episode where this guy who was selling Juicers and promoting the benefits of juicing stated that he spent his free time just searching for interesting studies off of PubMed, which he thought made him unique and special. I hate to break the news to him, but there are thousands of guys out there who do the same thing he does, so his “hobby” is actually quote common.

The young people today want to stay in formed, and are always willing to consume more information, especially the type that helps them learn more about how to take care of their body and stay in good shape.

Clearly the young people and the internet savy users in the year 2016 are very well informed, and can detect BS very easily, and will call people out on their inaccurate information and insufficient knowledge. You got an entire generation of young guys who grew up getting into the weight room really early, and having the access of the internet in their hands. The result is that they did their own amateur independent research on steroids, by reading PubMed a lot. Which is fine.

I admit that when it comes to steroids, the whole process of cycling, and other growth hormone secretagogues and analogues, I have very limited knowledge. I just never got deep into learning about all of the types of steroids, and synthetic growth hormones being sold today. What I do know is that the term ‘Steroids” actually refers to synthetic testosterone, which is the male androgen, produced not just in the testes but also in the adrenal glands. The naturally occurring testosterone in all adult males is actually called “Anabolic Steroids”.

Growth hormone, aka Somatotropin or Somatropin, produced mainly in pituitary gland in the center of the brain. This is completely different from testosterone, although they can both be places under the umbrella term “steroids” since they are both used often by guys in bodybuilding to increase muscle mass, reduce fat percentage, gain more energy, increase sexual stamina, etc.

There is probably hundreds of guys who was searching on PubMed years before I came along trying to look at all of the possible types of chemicals that can get them to grow taller. There are some obsessed bodybuilders who really, REALLY know their steroids, and have probably read hundreds of studies and know all the ways the synthetic chemicals interact with the body’s function and the neurotransmitter pathways very well. Nearly every single guy at some point in their life probably have thought and desired to be taller and it makes sense that they would score the internet looking for maybe some secret clue or trick to do it.

I know since the amount of traffic that comes to this website every day where young guys looking for secret pills to take to grow taller is extremely large. I get thousands of emails from guys asking for help to give them height.

What I do know is that the people who posted on the old forum who was active in the mid 2000s, they already had suggested these chemicals because they had already exhausted the PubMed studies and hit their wall of dedication. There is no chemical that can lengthen the bones after the bones have no cartilage inside them (Although there are tricks to get around this technical problem which have been suggested and theoretically can work).

Here are just a small list of the things that people back in 2005-2010 had found and suggested, which all make sense and can work for young kids with growth plate cartilage.

CJC No Dac 1295
Oxandrolone (aka Anavar)
Estrogen Inhibitors

All 4 of the 5 are chemicals that either assist growth hormone production, increase growth hormone production, or is basically a synthetic type of growth hormone.

If you read what the this site ( said about the side effects of using CJC-1295….

“…Another side effect of the CJC-1295 is acromegaly, since it helps in increasing the levels of the growth hormone. Acromegaly is a condition where extra growth hormone is released even after the internal organs and the skeleton have finished growing. This causes thickening of the skin, deepening of voice, enlargement of jaws, and slurring of speech. Another effect of acromegaly is the swelling of the soft tissue in the internal organs. This could result in the weakening of the muscles of the internal organs, like the heart. This was tested during the phase 2 testing of CJC-1295.”

Notice that the the writers note that a person can develop acromegaly if they took the CJC-1295 after their bones have fully ossified. The cartilage areas in their bodies that are still left will start to go through some type of hypertrophy process. The elbows, knuckles, wrists, ankles will all swell a little.

A recent post I wrote a few months ago had said that there is a chance that taking some growth hormone after the bones have fully ossified can for some individuals give them maybe 1 last inch in extra height. It seems that the HGH-agonists and HGH-stimulating hormones can cause the articular cartilage in the knees and as well as the very, VERY thin last layer of fibrocartilage in the edges of each vertebrate bone to thicken slightly. When you combine all of the vertebrate bones, the slight expansion of the articular bones, and the irregular bones in the ankles going through periosteal bone growth (bones just get bigger in width), they can all add up to give a noticeable last burst of a mini-growth spurt. Of course, I am assuming the user is around 22-24, just after their bones have all fused, but have not gotten thicker due to the process called “filling out” aka “getting wider”.


Maybe Ibutamoren may not be the best chemical for a height growth (for that teenage male who has a little bit of growth plate left), and maybe Hexarelin and CJC-1295 (No Dac) will be more effective, do a much better job, and the chemical’s effect would not wear off so quickly. I was not informed of the full information of the chemicals but I do make corrections when a reader of this website chimes in, writes a comment, and corrects my reported science based facts which are not 100% accurate. For that, I thank the commenter for their input to make this website better.

Ibutamoren Does Allow You To Grow Taller

It is very rare that something comes from another source or website written in the english language which actually teaches up something because we have always thought we sort of knew 99% of all of the relevant information and studies that are released on the subject of height increase. This is something that we were only made aware just a couple of hours ago.

It seems that a very small blogspot post ( has linked to our website, and in that article, the writer mentions a compound which I have not heard before. Ibutamoren. Whoever wrote these 2 posts clearly did their research, and used some of the information that we have discovered and gathered, since they obviously have read our news on Teplyashin’s research and the effects of Relaxin.

In their post on how it might be possible for people with open growth plates to easily grow taller, they basically propose orally ingesting a dozen compounds which all have effects which stimulate the levels of IGF-1 and HGH in the subject’s system. Plus, they cite all of the studies that are backing up the claims.

  • L-Dopa (500 mg) – Increases GH levels by 1000% temporarily
  • GABA (5 grams) – increases GH levels by 525% temporarily
  • GABA (3 grams) – increases GH levels by 400% temporarily
  • Glutamine (2 grams) – increases GH levels by 400% temporarily
  • Arginine (9 grams) – increases GH levels by 220% temporarily
  • Ibutamoren (25 mg) – Taken daily for 2 weeks increases 24-hour Growth Hormone levels by 97%.
  • Ibutamoren (25 mg) – taken daily for 2 months increases IGF-1 levels by 40%
  • Ibutamoren (25 mg) – taken daily for 1 year increases IGF-1 levels by 20% on average
  • Creatine (20 grams ) – increases GH levels by 83% temporarily
  • Casein (36 grams) – taken daily for a week will cause IGF-1 to increase by 15%.
  • Milk (3 glasses a day) – increases IGF-1 levels by 10% and increases milk’s bioavailability.

So how much to take, and for how long?

The poster recommends taking 25 mg of Ibutamoren for 3 months, and this is to gain 1 full inch of height. 

(WARNING: This is all the poster’s research!!) – Supposedly it takes about 126 IU of GH Injections in HGH therapy to help the still growing kid get 1 inch of height. This is over a 3 month time. He/she/the poster then divided that 126 IU by 90 days to say that there is supposedly about 1.4 IU that is used by the patient’s system each day. Apparently, adolescents used around 700 micrograms of GH that is naturally produced in their bodies each day. That 700 micrograms converts to 2.1 IU. You combine the 2.1 IU that is used up by the child and the 1.4 IU that is created by Ibutamoren.

The poster cites this study “Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial” as saying that taking Ibutamoren repeated does not decrease its effects.

Our Thoughts: A lot of theses studies that show that taking something like Ibutamoren increasing height and having a noticeable effect on the levels of IGF-1 and GH are always done on lab rats/mice. The person who wrote this post did not read through the articles they cited in their entirety.

We always err on the side of caution and say that this person’s claims on the ability of Ibutamoren should be downplayed, although we can say that it is possible that it could work. When you actually look at the effect of Ibutamoren being taken from the 2 week range, the 2 month range, and the 1 year range, clearly you see that the ability of the chemical compound to keep the IGF-1 levels elevated drops, due the human body’s own tendency to reach some level of homeostasis. You go from 97% elevation, to 40%, to 20% by the time the time range for the experiment is pushed to 1 year.

If you talk to any bodybuilder who has used steroids they would just say “DUH” since any foreign compound will have its effect diminished over time by the body. That is why bodybuilders have this idea of “cycling”. You take the GH level stimulating drugs in a cycle, intermittently.

I haven’t personally done any level of research on Ibutamoren but a quick Wikipedia article on it says that it is a GH secretagogue (analog of GH-releasing peptide (MK-677)). It also promotes the ghrelin receptor. What is sort of surprising for me when reading the Wikipedia article on it is that it can raise by the IGF-1 and the GH levels without also raising the cortisol levels as well.

Here is what we can say for sure. If we can show that the effects of Ibutamoren decreases at a much slower rate than say Glutamine, GABA, and L-Dopa, which all can raise the GH levels in the body to a much greater degree, then we can say that “it’s effects doesn’t decrease with repeated usage”.

We DO NOT recommend trying to use this compound for the kid who is just starting puberty. However, we do recommend using this chemical compound for the 14-16 female girl who has sort of stopped growing taller, as well as the 16-18 year old boy. This type of compound is used as a last resort, when the teenager realizes that their growth plates are just about to close, and they are trying to push that last inch of growth out.

Limb Lengthening Surgery Case 1 From a Reddit AMA

Since we are in the subject of trying to become taller, we are fully aware of the largest online communities in the English language websites on the public side of the internet. The and are two forums which probably have the most discussion on the subject of LLS. Sometimes there are more public cases. That is what happened when a poster in the subreddit thread did a Ask Me Anything (AMA) for the members of the /short group. So far there have been around 181 comments and replies, which is definitely A LOT more than the usual number of comments left on any regular topic or post.

Limb Lengthening Surgery Case

Let’s summarize this more public talk, since the poster did show a few pictures of himself before and after the surgery.

Before Surgery Height: 5’ 1”
After Surgery Height: 5’ 6”
Current age in June 2016: 21

This young male individual does have a girlfriend, who seems to be very supportive. She knew before he decided and told her about the LLS that he had a lot of insecurity and issues over his height. She didn’t want him to go through with the surgery but she did understand why he wanted to go through with it. She herself is also on the short side but she doesn’t have the type of psychological hangup on height like him. She does not fret over her height, so she will never want to get the surgery. If she did have a similar level of issue as him, he would support her in her decision to get the same type of cosmetic surgery.

As the poster notes “I would only recommend to someone who really, really wanted it. It is not something you can do on a whim. It’s a long journey…”

As for his friends, he will just tell his friends that his sudden jump in height is from a late life growth spurt, which is completely reasonable and acceptable.

As for telling people, he did not tell most of the people in his life of his decision to get this cosmetic surgery. He did tell his family about his decision, as well as his best friend. His family did support his decision of getting the surgery and even paid for the surgery. It seems that the family did understand his psychiatric issues over his short stature and probably understood at a deep level that getting the surgery might be the only way to give him some type of peace of mind. The parents must be at least reasonably well off and have enough for this type of surgery since it can be more than $100K for something like this. In addition, the parents were also very supportive. Even his grandfather was supportive of his decision because his grandfather is also quite short and had to deal with a lot of psychological anguish in his own life for this short stature. It really didn’t take that much explaining and convincing for his parents to understand. They already understand before he ever mentioned it just how big of an issue being so short was for him. They got it.

Height of the rest of the family

Father: 5’ 6”
Mother: 5’ 0”
Sister: 5’ 0”
Grandfather: 5’ 0”
Grandmother: 5’ 3”

As we can see, the family he comes from is genetically predisposed towards short stature. Medically, it would be called Idiopathic Short Stature.

The Real Surgery Parts

  • Ethnicity: He is assumed by many other redactors to be “white”
    Total Cost: $130,000 – NOTE: Let’s remember that this high cost is actually a total cost for 2 different surgeries, one for the femurs, and the other for the tibia. Most LLS that are at the 7-7.5 mm LLS industry limit length limit is only for 1 set of bones, either the femur or the tibia, and those individual surgical operation usually cost more around $70,000. It is most likely that the $130K price is broken into something like $70K for the femurs and $50K for the tibia, and the other $10K for everything else. The $130K is for everything, including surgery, medications, wheelchairs/equipment, physical therapy, hotel, etc.
    Type of LLS Method Chosen: PRECISE 2 (Internal)
    Type of Nail Size Used: Don’t Remember, however he says the weight bearing of the nail was 50 lbs. It might be enough info to find out the exact nail size from just this.
    Level of Pain from a 1-10 Scale: Definitely 10 sometimes, but it seems this particular poster was able to handle it.
    Bones Broken: Both the Tibia and the Femur. Technically all 4 of the major long bones in the lower part of the human body was separated and slowly separated.
    Number Of Surgeries: 2 Major Separate Surgeries.
    Which bones were more physically painful?: Femur – The reason is because you go into pain every time you have to sit down on something hard or use the toilet sitting down. Since we are assuming the person is going to be resting in the hospital, the only time they will ever be sitting down on something hard, would makes perfect logical sense that to be only in the bathroom when using the toilet.
    Which bones were more psychologically difficult?: Tibia – The poster talks about something called a “Dorsiflexion splint boots” (no idea right now) and it must be worn at all times, even at night when going to sleep. I would assume this device makes it always uncomfortable.

    Frequency of Serious Complications and Side Effects from Choosing PRECISE from Paley: Very Low. I did a full post on Paley years ago. He is supposed to be the Absolute BEST, most experienced LLS Surgeon in the world, and his prices show that.
    Amount of time need to recover (to near 100% level): 6 months AFTER THE LENGTHENING IS DONE (So it is actually more like 9 months, at least for this individual person’s case).
    Amount of time to actually do the lengthening: 3 months
    Lengthening Rate: The poster increased his height by 5 inches, or 127 mm. He said that it took him 3 months to do the lengthening. That is only 90 days. However, there was not 2 bone cuts, but 4, so that means that the tibia and the femurs were lengthened every day in a consistent rate. Instead of it being 127/90 = 1.41 mm per day, it is actually 127/(90*2)= .70555 mm per day. That is exactly the suggested maximum rate of bone lengthened we have found mentioned multiple times before in the Make Me Taller and Limb Lengthening Forums. 0.7 mm of femur and/or tibia lengthening seems to be the exact industry.
    Amount of Lengthening Done for Each Bone/Femur/Tibia: 3 Inches of Increase in the Femur and 2 Inches of Increase in the Tibia
    Can you feel or notice the rods in side your bones? No. That is why Dr Paley is considered the best, and he invented this new Internal Method. There is a reason why it is called PRECISE.
    Exact Medical Center or Clinic: Paley Advance Limb Lengthening Institute.
    Exact Physician That Did The Surgery: Dr. Craig Robbins. Both he and Dr. Paley do an incredible job.

After the Surgery: You wake up the next day after surgery in pain, but the nurses will obviously give you the pain meds. You are then asked to stand on a walker, which will probably be extremely, extremely difficult to do. After a few days, you start physical therapy. There is supposed to be a bicycle machine called a Nustep (???) and the therapist will basically stretch as much as possible the muscles in the legs for the months that you are doing the bone stretching to make sure that the muscles also lengthen/stretch along with the bones that are mechanically being stretched in a very linear, systematical way. – “…The precise device in your leg uses telescoping rods that extend with turns from and electric magnetic device that you place over the osteotomy sight until your desired height is met or until the rods reach their maximum of 3 inches”

“I was not really bedridden…. I did go through a period when I used a wheelchair out and about, but I always used a walker at daily PT. It was pain was so great I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It takes a tough SOB but all of the guys there doing it all seemed like the results were well worth the pain. They do keep you doped up quite a bit for the most part which helps at times…”

You can either choose to get around the hospital/clinic in a walker or a wheelchair, but the walker will be much slower.

Other Notes: “…you can have both surgeries (this guy did both his femur and his tibia) relative close together and in some circumstances at the same time. Lets say 2 months wheelchair 3 months walker 1 month full weight bearing but seriously taking it easy. You don’t really use crutches unless you are only lengthening one leg.”

Commentary: If I remember correctly, I think the PRECISE technique, which is internal was invented and patented by Dr. Dror Paley himself. I remember looking through Paley’s CV and it said that he had been working on the technique for at least half a decade or so perfecting this new internal method. I remember it might have been around 2013 when I did the first post on the new technique, which is supposed to be much better, in terms of less complications, less side effects later on, and maybe even faster bone healing time.

Complications or Side Effects: from the poster “…my muscles are still a bit tight and they do seem to be pulling on my knee a bit. Sometimes that can be painful… I really need to do some laps in the pool so that won’t be a problem anymore! “ – “I and most other people were told to stop a bit early before the 6th inch because you can get too tight and then experiance something called “drop-foot”” – There was some loss of feeling around 1 inch from the incision sight in the left leg for a short while, but the surgeon told him that it was a normal symptom which goes away after about 5-6 months.

Myths About LLS:
Myth #1: you’ll never be able to play sports ever again. – NOT TRUE: He was able to go on hikes and even do sprints in a few more months, which we have seen from another older youtube personnel who showed us himself running. It seems that about 1 year after the surgery, after the bones have completed healed, he would be able to play sports again.
Myth #2: It is not offered in the US – NOT TRUE: It seems to be at least offered in California, Florida, and New York.
Myth #3: If you suffer from any type of psychological problem that is associated with your height, you can’t get it – NOT TRUE: It seems almost all people choosing to do LLS do have at some level body dysmorphia, height dysmorphia, or some type of real serious type of insecurity or hangup. Dr. Paley fully understands this critical aspect. He realizes fully that the only people who are desperate enough to allow another person to break their bones already have serious psychological issues with their height. Dr. Paley will definitely preform LLS on those people who have mental issues, and would almost expect that any person who comes into his office wanting LLS to have height dysmorphia already at some level.
Myth #4: There will be serious medical complications from choosing to go through with this cosmetic surgery which the subject/patient does not realize that will pop up years later, long term – NOT TRUE: From the poster “… Dr. Paley, one of the smartest people I have ever met, adamantly says there will be very little to no long term risks associated with the surgery. It’s relatively the same question as whether or not breaking a bone when you’re young effects you when you are 90”

Another Female Volleyball Player he met going through the process who wanted to be taller: 5’ 5” before and wanted to be 5’ 10”

Overall Changes In Attitude Of Life After Surgery: From the poster “…Personally, I felt abnormal before and that made me feel very uncomfortable and awkward. I am still short according to U.S standards, but I’m not abnormal and that makes me feel great. I am the same height or just a few inches away from many of my friends now”

Has there been any noticeable increase in amount of random stranger females attention/attraction for the male after surgery, from gaining 5 inches? Yes. He does believe that the boost in height has definitely helped him out.

Conclusion and Discussion:

“With Dr. Paley’s PRECISE method, you get all metal/hardware removed and you are left with only natural bone when you are done lengthening. Dr. Paley, one of the smartest people I have ever met, adamantly says there will be very little to no long term risks associated with the surgery. Just do some research….I definately had to put my life in the doctor’s hands, and so far he’s done a damn good job.”

If anyone did ask him where did he go and how come he came back so much taller, he would give any normal short lie and not focus on those topics too much. As for this decision and this journey he took, it is his life. He told only his family and close friends. It is something private. He doesn’t plan to talk about this phase of his life that much, and doesn’t plan to explain it to every new person that comes into his life. He will move on one day.

Yes, there is no doubt that the whole stretching part was extremely painful, but once you go through the process, basically you have walked through hell, gone through the gauntlet so to speak, and finally have made it to the other side, where you have lengthened your bones by 5 inches, and have had the physical therapists stretched your muscles also to be 5 inches longer, then your own brain will immediately start to forget the pain.

I remember this wonderful quote from this poster in my high school weightlifting class. “Pain is temporary. Regret lasts forever”. For a very brief short amount of excruciating pain, you will gain a permanent, lifetime of reward and gain. This poster has remarked that in the end, the process was all worth it.