Many months ago I wrote only a short post looking at the phenomena of indeterminate growth and wondered whether it was possible to trigger that type of evolutionary or ecological step in humans entitled “Indeterminate Growth And Mammals“. Humans, like most mammals, experience determinate growth, which means that at some point, their growth will be stopped due to bone constraints. The bone constraint is when the bones don’t get any longer because the force to expand the bone volumetrically in any direction is too large for anything reasonable to do.

The reason why indeterminate growth is possible in some creatures is that the tissue that is holding the overall body form in place is cartilage, not bone. Bones are strong, light, and porous but they are too strong as well as being too brittle to be plastically deformed. Even if the necessarily high force was applied in a tensile way, the bones would rather fracture and break in half than to stretch out.

The types of animals which most people know do experience indeterminate growth lare fish and reptiles. The sharks, the largest types of fish in the world actually don’t have bones but cartilage which create the overall body shape. The backbone or vertebrate structure of sharks are cartilage, not bone tissue. This means that with enough nutrients being difussed through the cartilage backbone of a shark, the cartilage can theoretically get larger in size, making each of the cartilage vertebrate bigger, pushing the fish longer and longer. For fish, height for them is length. The bigger the cartilage get, the longer the fish become.

The size of how big fish can get can be huge. A good example is how big some catfish becomes. It may be hard to find catfish these days over 50 lbs and 3 feet long but there were stories of catfish growing to over 12 feet long when the European settlers first came to the Americas. Certain fish can live very long, and they never stop growing. The only way that fish size is usually limited is because the bigger fish are either caught by humans or eaten by something slightly bigger than them. This shows that as long as a fish is not eaten by a bigger animal or caught by humans, certain fish species will grow longer and longer until they become monsters. I am not sure whether some aquatic animals ever grow so big that they have no natural predators and actually die from natural causes like disease and infections. I guess the idea of the squid which grows into the giant squid might answer the issue with an affirmation.

The issue for humans to develop anything like indeterminate growth is to turn their bones into cartilage which can continuously get nutrients through diffusion through cartilage matrix collagen, produce chondrocytes from a mesenchyme location, and never experience growth plates closure.

Of course the likely result is that the cartilage is not strong enough to support the adult weight of the human individual. the cartilage tissue collapses in thickness, and the result is the vascularization of the cartilage area leading to calcification and bone tissue.

The reason why fish can experience indeterminant growth and have cartilage as the main supporting tissue is because they are living in the water, which has a bouyancy force that is pushed upwards. The effect of earth’s gravitational force is actually decrease substantially, if not completely negated. (forgive me if my conceptual physics understanding is completely wrong here)

If we do a fluid statics problem to see how the hydrostatic forces act in water in terms of point to point, we know that from the top of the Earth’s atmosphere to the ground sea level, the average atmospheric pressure is 1 atm or 760 mm Hg (Hg is the shorthand for mercury).

Usually Patm= 1 atm = 101325 Pa

To find the downward pressure at any level of water (or fluid) below the surface of the water, which is assumed at ground level, we use the formula…

Patm + rho*g*h = P

rho is density and the density of water is around 1000 kg/m^3. g is the gravitational constant which is about 9.81 m/s^2. So the pressure exerted on a fish or aquatic creature in the back (assuming that they are swimming in a horizontal direction with a dorsal and ventral side) is determined by the depth at which they live. However, from basic hydrostatic pressure principles, they also have a force that is pushing upwards on their body. This means that instead of in terms of the vertical growth that humans are thinking of, pushing upwards against the gravitational downward force of gravity, aquatic animals focus on growing longer, increasing in the horizontal direction. Since there is no forces that is pushing in the lateral direction, except for the hydrostatic pressures, the fish don’t have a force that is holding them back from growing longer.

They can have cartilage tissue instead of bones because the environment they live in does not have the forces pushing in the direction which would inhibit their growth, which is to grow longer horizontally.

Recently I wrote a post entitled “Growth Plates In Elephants Never Close Or Close Extremely Late Suggesting They Experience Indeterminate Growth (Important)” showing that the largest animals on land, the elephant might actually live to be around 150 years old and some elephant species might have cartilage belts in their legs meaning that they never stop growing throughout life. Even for elephants who are in their 5th to 6th decade, there is still cartilage found in their long bones indicating that they are still growing.

Something that was interesting is that even if the cartilage in the elephant’s legs have ossified, their vertebrate bones still have growth plate cartilage, so they might not be growing vertically longer but they are growing horizontally longer as their vertebrate bones get wider and bigger.

Implications For Height Increase

Humans are a land living, air breathing mammal species. For almost all of us, the cartilage which we were born with which allows us to grow taller eventually disappears. For some creatures, their body is held up in their respective structure by a type of tissue that is not as hard and brittle and strong as the bone.

Sharks and most fish have cartilage and that is okay since they live in the water, which forces them to focus on growing longer. Reptiles like snakes also have vertebrate which are very flexible. Snakes also supposedly never stop growing. However these types of species are all focused on growing longer, not taller.

To grow taller, we have to like the elephant. The elephant supposed have growth plates in their legs for a very long time. They also seem to keep growing horizontally due to unfused vertebrate almost to old age, at least from mammoth and asian elephant studies.

I am not sure which mechanism allows elephants to keep their growth plate for so long, especially since they are so much heavier than humans and there might be more weight or load per square inche of cartilage and chondrocytes than the average human body.

It is suggested that we study the signalling pathway of the growth plate process in elephants and compare them to human vertical growth to see what they are doing right in being able to keep their growth plates around for multiple decades beyond what the human species can do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something that I am starting to use as a rule of thumb to find possible chemical compounds that can lead to at least a little bit of height increase in adults is that if it seems to have ability to decrease the symptoms of arthritis or osteoarthritis, there is a good chance it would help in improving the physiological function and structure of the articular cartilage in the end of our long bones, like the hip and knees. As a result, it might mean that it makes the cartilage layer thicker, giving us a few millimeters of extra height.

Something I did find which is used in improving knee osteoarthritis is known as sodium pentosan polysulfate. There are just a few of the studies I’ve found which shows its possible clinical uses.

Study #1: Sodium pentosan polysulfate resulted in cartilage improvement in knee osteoarthritis – An open clinical trial

Background

Pentosan polysulfate sodium (pentosan) is a semi-synthetic drug manufactured from beech-wood hemicellulose by sulfate esterification of the xylopyranose hydroxyl groups. From in vitro and animal model studies, pentosan has been proposed as a disease modifying osteoarthritis drug (DMOAD). The objective of this study was to assess the efficacy, safety, and patient satisfaction in patients with mild radiographic knee osteoarthritis (OA) findings and OA-associated symptoms and signs.

Methods

“…Treatment consisted of 6 weekly subcutaneous injections (sc) of pentosan (2 mg/kg). Patients were clinically assessed at entry and 1 to 8, 11, 15, 24 & 52 weeks post treatment.”

Study #2: Pentosan Polysulfate: A Novel Therapy for the Mucopolysaccharidoses

Abstract

Pentosan polysulfate (PPS) is an FDA-approved, oral medication with anti-inflammatory and pro-chondrogenic properties. We have previously shown that animal models of the mucopolysaccharidoses (MPS) exhibit significant inflammatory disease, contributing to cartilage degeneration. Enzyme replacement therapy (ERT) only partly reduced inflammation, and anti-TNF-alpha antibody therapy significantly enhanced clinical and pathological outcomes. Here we describe the use of PPS for the treatment of MPS type VI rats.

I did some research on the references and citations of the 2nd study and it did mention one study published which I think most other height increase researchers would agree makes the Pentosan a very good candidate as another possible chemical compound which has chondrocyte proliferation and eventual height increasing potential. The study is…

Pentosan polysulfate promotes proliferation and chondrogenic differentiation of adulthuman bone marrow-derived mesenchymal precursor cells.

Authors: Ghosh P, Wu J, Shimmon S, Zannettino AC, Gronthos S, Itescu S.

From the conclusions…

“This is the first study to demonstrate that PPS promotes MPC proliferation and chondrogenesis, offering new strategies for cartilage regeneration and repair in osteoarthritic joints.”

Results

Significant MPC proliferation was evident by day 3 at PPS concentrations of 1 to 5 microg/ml (P < 0.01). In the presence of 1 to 10 microg/ml PPS, a 38% reduction in IL-4/IFNgamma-induced MPC apoptosis was observed. In 5-day MMC, 130% stimulation of PG synthesis occurred at 2.5 microg/ml PPS (P < 0.0001), while 5.0 microg/ml PPS achieved maximal stimulation in the 7-day and 10-day cultures (P < 0.05). HA and DS at > or = 5 microg/ml inhibited PG synthesis (P < 0.05) in 5-day MMC. Collagen type II deposition by MMC was significant at > or = 0.5 microg/ml PPS (P < 0.001 to 0.05). In MPC-PPS pellet cultures, more PG, collagen type II but less collagen type I was deposited than in controls. Real-time PCR results were consistent with the protein data. At 5 and 10 microg/ml PPS, MPC osteogenic differentiation was suppressed (P < 0.01).

Interpretation of the Abstract

Just from a small dosage ranging from 2.5-10 micrograms/mL of the PPS, 5 major things happened.

1. Increase in the adult adipose tissue derived mesenchymal stem cells
2. Reduction in Interleukin-4 induced MSCs apoptosis
3. Stimulated more proteoglycan synthesis
4. Collagen Type II by the stem cells were increased
5. The PPS also managed to suppress the stem cells from turning into bone cells.

All I can say it that this new compound Sodium Pentosan Polysulfate, aka Pentosan, has some really promising features which would make it good as an additional compound used for the height increase research.

In this podcast episode I will be speaking alone looking at what is being sold on the AdultHeightIncrease.Blogspot.com blog and seeing how valid the guy is in the research he has been doing. Like so many people in this community including many former and current height increase researchers, he has declined the chance to come on the podcast and have his voice heard.

Since this area of scientific research is so lucrative, it is very hard to find people who would be willing to come on the website to talk about their research and have their voices broadcasted throughout the entire internet space. I understand that we all really care about our privacy and value security and anonymity when we are looking at this issue. Most people reject the opportunity to come on and speak.

He did answer back with all those answers to my questions.

Here is what I can say about the main contributor to the Adult Height Increase blog, Tim.

• He has been around a very long time, since at least 2007 when he was a contributor to old message boards like the Impartial Height Increase Message Board
• He has been doing some serious research.
• He has a few formulas he has made to try to induce height increase even for physically mature adults.
• No formula that he has developed so far has been consistently successful
• He has been an active member in many other grow taller forums.

1st, I have to address the fact that I have in a previous post already written about the product sold on the Adult Height Increase blog which is called MONSTER BS FORMULA entitled “Review On MONSTER BS FORMULA Sold By Adult Height Increase Blog”. In that post I was very hesitant to believe that the two part formulation would work.

• The first part actually does make some sense. To get the bones to theoretically stretch out, you would have to demineralize or remove calcium by stimulating and adding more parathyroid hormone using the PTC-H formula. The thing about the calcitonin I don’t know about since I never did any research on calcitonin.

• The idea of using a hyperbaric chamber to increase the possible O2 diffusion into the human body for increased cell proliferation would not do any good

These are the emails we have exchanged back and forth…

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Hey Tim,

This is Michael from Natural Height Growth. I think you might be on to something and I wanted to pick your brains a little. My research is on going but it seems that you have been at this for at least 3 more years than me. I believe that you are much more knowledgeable on what actually works than me. I want to ask you about your research. would you be interested in explaining your results to the other height increase seekers to listen to my podcast? I don’t view ourselves as competitors since we are both working on the same eventual goal. This thing is too big and complicated for any one person to do. If you are not interested, I understand. Just hoping to hear from you. – Michael

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Hello Micheal

I saw your blog and it has quite a lot of information of all presently
available options.  I would be willing to answer your questions here.
I would also be willing to offer you a sample of my formulas for you
to try personally. – Thanks

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That is fine.

These are the questions.

1. Tell me about yourself, age, height, ethnicity, background, education
2. How long have you been doing the research?
3. What got you interested in this endeavor?
4. Have you found a working, consistent formula?
5. If not, what do you think are the most feasible mixtures or formulations you have created.
6. What is the active ingredient in PTH-C formula
7. The study you link to does not show any link between increased O2  and chondrogenesis. How does this step make people taller?
8. What is the link between NO stimulation and adult height increase?
9. How does the PTH-C manage to focus on the localized bone area instead of just affecting the entire skeletal structure?

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Hello Micheal.

Here are your answers.

Age 37, 185 cm, ethnicity do not want to reveal, knowledge in homeopathy as a special interest due to working with a 60-year-of-experience homeopath doctor as a salesman and co-manufacturer of specialized compounds.

Since 1993.  Began blog in 2005 for international participation. 20 years.

Personal goal to grow taller using a cheaper and easily accessible method.  Never wanted to go for LL surgery.

No. Some brilliant results but mostly failures.  Less than 5% success rate thus far and most trials have indeed failed.

Key to grow taller is to convert bones to a growing state more than anything else, something like LL does creating a cartilaginous space in the hard bones to grow and then stretch it.

Chemically it is plain water but it is powered by substance derived photons such as plants, minerals, salts, etc, which can manipulate the biophotons which is the light emitted by genes when biochemical processes takes place in the nucleus of the cells.  This tampers biophotons to tweak biochemical reactions to attain an effect.

Yes study does not directly show that but I don’t exclusively rely on studies alone but develop and test out new ideas hitherto untested to achieve a breakthrough.  Such brute force methods have produced breakthroughs in the past when a candidate aged 23 grew an inch in just 7 days by overdosing Monster formula. http://www.network54.com/Forum/611972/message/1250401239/Update+8-16+%28Correction%29

Note that hyperbaric therapy is done for just short durations of 60-90 minute sessions only and these studies are based on those but what if your body is under hyper-oxygenation effect for 24 hours in a broken bone state, won’t the body be forced to stimulate cartilage cells to repair, remember body is dynamic. See this study of a short duration hyperbaric therapy on the longitudinal bones of rabbits –  Please read attached PDF.

PTH-C is a problem area, making formula too strong leads to weakening of the skeleton and REDUCTION of height. I tested this by taking standalone.  So it has to be made just right to enable gentle calcium and mineral depletion and making Muscle builder formula very strong to get a powerful and safe effect.   So after many tweaks I arrived at a safer PTH-C formula.  First created was a plain PTH formula later added a calcitonin suppressant. So the idea is making bones “soft”and creating growth using the Muscle builder formula.

Please read more about the Muscle builder formula below – Bone marrow contains mesenchymal stem cells that can build cartilage cells which grow into bones.  One way to stimulate them is to load the blood with very high oxygen content and force feed body tissues with that under  a pressurized oxygen chamber.  This has shown to increase of stem cells by 800% in 40-60 hours of treatment seen in the hyperbaric oxygen treatment which is done for short duration only due to risk of hyperoxemia.

The muscle builder formula accomplishes the same by the oral dose without the use of pressure chambers by alternative mechanism but similar and even more powerful effects.

When I built this formula called Muscle builder, the focus was to create something that increases lung inspiration capacity to enable deeper breaths even when sitting, sleeping, and of course when doing even some mild physical activity, lungs would expand and contract like a motor, rapidfire speed.  Like if you pour very cold water suddenly, you’d feel lungs expanding and contracting like a dynamo. I didn’t even knew about hyperbaric therapy  BUT what I noted and those who have used it said 1. It improved their vision 2.  Better skin and younger looking face.  3. Muscle tone improvement and no fatigue on repeated movements.  4. Better urinary flow down to the last drop with high pressure like some piston inside. 5. Heart beating stronger. 6. Mind feeling enlightened.

Muscle growth formula works by sucking in oxygen by increasing lung expansion and contractions and efficient blood flow to tissues immediately as soon as they are absorbed and rapid speed circulation leading to fatigue free state 24/7 and a very healthy feeling.  All this is due to stem cell stimulation induced by efficient tweaking of the oxygen management.  Everyone breaths the same air, but you will use oxygen more than others.

Muscle builder is the only formula that always worked 100% in every person who ever used it. No other formula is as consistent and stable and always works only on a limited number of people. I have supplied Muscle builder to ladies as old as 73, 54, 59, and men aged 55 and up and all report same effect without fail.

Safety – In hyperbaric oxygen therapy, patients are placed in a hyperbaric chamber with higher air pressure than atmosphere for up to 90 minutes in a session to enable hyperoxygenation to the tissues breathing of pure oxygen.

Here in the Muscle builder we aren’t placing our bodies in any chamber but attaining same effect by encouraging higher lung inspiration capacity and rapidfire transfer of oxygen to all tissues 24 hours a day from a single ORAL dose.

So risk of pressurized chamber does not arise in this !

See risks of HBOT
http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/handle/123456789/2316

See this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RtW4iBtFqo about what Muscle builder can do with same effect as hyperbaric oxygen therapy. He also talks about bone forming cells stimulated by the therapy.

He also referenced an article from 1967 entitled “EFFECT OF HYPERBARIC OXYGENATION ON LONGITUDINAL GROWTH OF BONES” by BJORN MAURITZ PERSSO.

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• Length of time: 30 mins
• Beginning of actual interview: 1:15

Listen Here – (to download, right click and ‘save’)

Something that I have wondered ever since I wrote the post about how I thought Parathyroid Hormone related Protein aka PTHrP was the thing that we were looking for, I have wondered how something like it should be administered.

The original post was “The Connection Between Regenerating Deer Antlers and The PTHrP, PTH And IHH pathway for Cartilage Regulation, PTHrP Seems To Be The Answer (Big Breakthrough!)”

Looking over the multiple studies on how much effect mechanical loading is towards actual bone remodeling and effects, I would say that anything that would be just a continuous steady state of injected compound would not work. Even increasing growth factor injection at a linear constant rate would not work. I am proposing that the way to make any technique or method work is to apply the stimuli in a non-constant, intermittent way where for only a short period of time each day or week do we try out a stimuli. This behavior of stimuli is going to work the best.

Two previous post link the idea of doing something intermittently as well.

• Grow Bone And Grow Taller Using Intermittent Mechanical Loading
• Increase Height And Grow Taller Through Intermittent Fasting

The thing about the human body, like most biological bodies which have homeostasis, is that it is always pushing the body to a state of equilibrium. The elements in the body, which include the tissues, will develop often a resistance to any type of increased concentration, density, or flow of any type of foreign or outside stimuli.

A good example of this is what the neurotransmitter receptors in the axons of the neuron do when a person starts to take either a stimulant or relaxant and the receptor numbers eventually change in quantity and the overall neuron losses its sensitivity to the “drug”.

A 2nd example is how bodybuilders are trying to cycle through any type of supplement, peptide, or steroid use. The body just looses the sensitivity so the person can either try to increase the dosage risking side effects, or they drop the dosage waiting for the body to recover again, and go back to a state where it can be easily effected by ingested supplements again.

If we just applied 100 Nextons of force on a bone surface to make it grow harders, stronger, and thicken, at some point the bone will remodel itself to be able to withstand the force. If the bone can’t withstand the bone loading, it will just fracture and break apart. However, if the concentration or amount is not too high, the bones will eventually get harder and stronger.

So we can’t just increase bone loads or use growth factors in a continuous way. We have to choose very carefully a certain amount to be used. The therapy will consist of a rather high dose of PTHrP injected with a needle into the bone area close to the ends of our long bones.

The exact formation is to do 4 injects around the top area (epiphysis) of out lower leg, right below the knee protrusion region. The dosage I would say is around 100 micrograms/mL for each needle. Since there is 4 needles, each going into all 4 directions into the leg, there will be a total of 400 migrograms/mL beign injected. The rate of use will be 2 times a week.

The exact location I am proposing is the cortical bone layer just beneath the periosteum. It has to be subcutaneously, but also subperiosteal. The PTHrP has the ability to turn the cambium layer of progenitor bone cells possibly into chondrocytes and thus cartilage tissue. The result is that the hard material of the cortical bone might decrease leaving the area flexible enough to be pushed apart by the newly formed cartilage tissue.

The only problem with this idea is that we still would need a step or injected compound that can cause the hard cortical bone to weaken, de-ossify, decalcify for anything to work.

I guess the main thing to take away from this post is that any type of therapy used should be done in an intermittent fashion.

Months ago Tyler gave me a link to a patent which was proposed by Yokota for the loading device that was done to the lab mice’s synovial joints. When I saw how the researchers were actually loading the joints I realized that it is possible to simplify the loading machine to something similar. The patent name and link is below…

APPARATUS AND METHOD FOR ENHANCING BONE FORMATION (WO2005027735)

Let me say that patents are created to protect legal entities from other people stealing their ideas and profiting from them. If I was to build this device, then I would give this to Tyler or another LSJL experimenter for personal use. I don’t plan to sell the device.

This post is to state that I wanted to do a redesign of the old idea, which is to take two linear actuators, align them up, and the two ends of the actuators would push inward loading the synovial joints. Refer to the old picture I drew using Google Sketch Up.

Now look at the design that Yokota (with Tanaka) is proposing. It is much simpler in design because instead of two actuators or machines that is pushing down and up in a sinusoidal manner, there is actually just one lever that is moving up and down in a certain frequency.

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The idea is that we just use one movable piece loading on one side, and hold the other side of the synovial joint in place using a firm board or surface so that the joint can’t move as a result of being loaded.

The first picture is showing that we want to be loading the bones in the lateral direction from the axis direction of the long bones. The side of the epiphysis is being pushed down.

I am looking at the lever that is pushing down on the joint and I am questioning whether it is even necessary to making the loading mechanical. Would it just be simpler if we did it using human arm strength, pushing down on the metal piece that is doing the loading?

I used to design 3-D Objects using the Mechanical Engineering softwares Solidworks, 3DS MAX, and Autocad but it is still rather difficult for me to figure out what exactly the design should look like in a 3-D way.

The writing on the patent is extremely hard for me to read. It seems to say that the bottom part is a piezo-actuator, which makes sense. The bones themselves have piezoelectric properties.

When the level is pressed down on the bone, I am guessing that the circuit is fully closed, leading to a small amount of current being run through the device, giving a slight electrical signal to the bone/epiphysis of the loaded area. This might be what Yokota means when he is saying that the bones as piezo-electric material will react in some way to remodel themselves form the electrical signal.

However using the Google SketchUp, since it is free and I don’t have a Solidworks or AutoCad license anymore, I have only been able to so far in the simplified design. I can not go any farther since I don’t exactly know what I am seeing or reading. The 3-D design I have posted below is all that I can do. It will eventually save money at least for the initial cost of the building of say the first prototype.